To the pompous @ss who insulted me!
I’ve started a new thread in regards to your comments since I am not going to allow you to hijack a thread where I am trying to make a difference.
Personally, I think you need a lesson in blogging etiquette. I took the time to read all the postings from your short existence here on Dealer Elite and I found most of your material to be self promotional or insulting to other people who work in our industry. You often use the term “Moronic” and “Neanderthal” when referring to people who work in our business. Do you actually think that by insulting potential clients you'll earn their business?
You are quick to criticize others, but do not take the time to offer how you would accomplish whatever it is you teach. While you may not agree with what I teach, that does not give you the right to come on here and insult me? You might as well have just walked in to one of my on-site training sessions and proclaimed me a charlatan, because that’s basically what you just did in my phone training thread. Did you used to get beat up a lot as a kid in school and now you find satisfaction in using a keyboard to insult others? You’ve picked a fight with the wrong person amigo.
The materials I teach are proven to work and I have quite a few satisfied customers who can back that up. Many well know trainers in the business teach techniques very similar to the ones I teach. So not only are you insulting me, but you’re also insulting countless others. If something has been around for 30 years, it’s probably because it works.
I have personally taken countless phone-ups as well as listened to thousands upon thousands of phone-ups through many of the call tracking services used by automotive dealerships. My team and I listen to and coach roughly 400 to 600 phone-ups per month. I have been teaching this material for the better part of the last ten years. Before that I was a very successful salesperson and manager working in a dealership, so I think I know a thing or two about how to handle a phone-up. Not only do I truly believe in what I teach, but I’ll also get on the phone while in a dealership and schedule appointment after appointment.
Since you’re a self proclaimed expert on how to handle customers, one would think you would know better than to come on here and make derogatory remarks about another trainer. Do you teach your students to bash the competition?
Now on to your lesson in blogging etiquette:
- Do not insult others unless you’ve first been provoked by a complete idiot.
- Instead of saying, “I am the best trainer and my crap is the best.” Show us through
examples such as the demonstration I am doing with my “Do you have what it
takes to be a phone Ninja?” thread. I challenge you to start a thread such as: “Steve’s way to handle a phone-up” and show us how you would do it. Let the community decide who has the better techniques. - Never write anything that you would not want the whole world to see. Personally I’d be embarrassed by some of the material you’ve written. If I had written the stuff you have posted, I’d be begging the Dealer Elite folks to delete my material. When the heat was off, I’d crawl back in and observe and only post when I had something positive to say. Of course that’s after I publicly apologized to the community for being a pompous @ss.
There’s enough business out there to support hundreds of trainers. We don’t need to be on here bashing one another in an attempt to earn business. I truly do not like writing this type of message, but you left me no choice when you made derogatory remarks about me and my business. And for the record, my business employs five very professional and intelligent women who coach salespeople on how to appoint more phone-ups, and my clients love what they do.
So I encourage you to think twice before hitting the submit button next time you feel the need say something negative.
Jerry Thibeau
Proud Phone Trainer & Business Owner
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Vinnie Torrente on
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To All,
"We all want to succeed" (There are many opinions out there on every aspect of training) Techniques word tracks/scripts along with process...The business has changed the past ten years; We can all agree that one thing HASN'T "People sell CARS" sell yourself sell the dealer..Wether through internet or phone never stops selling! Jerry I am sure that many dealers and owners appreciate your training. I believe that there is sales professionals and management where your training has had an impact on sales and productivity. I know in CA that techniques used on some parts of the east coast won’t have the same effect as the West. One thing is certain no matter who's training it's not self gratitude it's the impact it will have on someone else’s life.
Ps: Nobody should ever blog something if it's negative
To all the trainers..
Thank you
Vinnie Torrente
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Permalink Reply by Steve Richards on -
Jerry, quite the tirade. I believe the only line in my post that was directed at you personally labeled you a "fine fellow" - not exactly an insult. I would be glad to plead guilty to your other “charges” if are able to point out in anything I’ve written where I have claimed that "I'm the best trainer" or "My crap is the best." Am I a contrarian when it comes to conventional automotive sales ideas? Yes, guilty. Do I believe that the car sales person's poor reputation is a result of what they are trained to say, not who they really are? Yes, guilty. Heeding your advice, thinking about it twice, I have addressed your methodology completely and sent it to your email address; privately. If you want to publish it for debate, that's your call. It was never my intention to disparage you to all 6 people that read your thread.
My issue is with your material; which is exactly the same material someone taught me when I was a sales person in 1978. Obviously you didn’t develop the material, ergo my attack is not directed at you, so relax, you just might learn something.
I often use the terms “moronic” and “Neanderthal” to describe aspects of the automotive sales process and the strategies employed by many sales teams. I picked up those words from consumers; prospective automotive customers – the ones with the money. I figured, maybe naively, that if the people with the money saw our strategies as “moronic” maybe we should pay attention. If one combines the prospective customer’s view of our strategies with the opinion sales people have as to how effective it is to treat a customer rudely on the phone; then both “moronic” and “Neanderthal” apply.
Amigo, I repeat, I have no issue with you. But do you honestly believe that the tactics and techniques you coach people to use, would work on you, if you were to call a dealership seeking information? If they would, I’ve wasted a lot time responding to you. As for your quote, "If something has been around for 30 years, it’s probably because it works" - let me quote Mark Twain; "The problem ain't what folks don't know. The problem is what folks do know that just ain't so." The automotive sales process is offensive (according to consumers), expensive (according to dealers), and inefficient (according to all parties involved). It's been around for 40-50 years in its present form. I can tell you why if you're interested. Or maybe, if you did indeed read my other posts, you already know.
And finally, "blog etiquette;" a blog that is factual and doesn’t attack ANYONE is not negative. The fact that you felt insulated compels me to apologize, I am sorry. After all, it not what I say, it's what you hear. You may want to consider what the customer is hearing from the sales people you coach.
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Permalink Reply by Jerry Thibeau on
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Steve,
I am not the only one who thought your original posting was uncalled for and out of line. Shortly after you posted, I got two phone calls and several e-mails from people telling me I needed to go check out Dealer Elite. Their reaction was the same as mine.
How would you like it if you were speaking at Digital Dealer or NADA and I stood up in the middle of your presentation and said, "this guy is full of crap, what he is teaching does not work and it's bad for business." I don't think you'd be too excited about that. And I would certainly come off as a pompous @ss for doing so. Thus the title for this thread.
Once again you're quick to try and discredit what I teach, but you have not shared with the forum how you would handle a phone-up. I went to your website and tried to find something, but there was not a whole lot of substance there. You should spend less time on here preaching and more time working on your website. I can't take credit for that last statement, one of my friends suggested I write that. I thought it was funny and true so I did.
I wonder if I mystery shopped some of your customers what I would hear on the phone? Have you ever picked up the phone and mystery shopped a dealership? I have, and it's very sad how most salespeople handle a sales call. I would like to hear one of your trained stores in action.
I am going to publish (since you gave me permission) the e-mail you wrote to me and debunk your misguided perceptions of what I and many others teach. Look for that a little later when I find some spare time.
Jerry
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Permalink Reply by Steve Richards on
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Cool.
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Steve Richards wrote:1. You coached the sales person to tell the prospect “we’ve had a few calls already on that one today.” That is, in all likelihood, a lie. A big lie? No, but a lie nevertheless. Where does a habit of lying start? With the first little lie.
I like to think of the above as selling. Your statement strikes me as that of a consumer advocate. I am painting a mental picture to the customer that if they are interested in the vehicle they had better get to dealership sooner than later. Plus if other people have called on this vehicle than they must be on to something and they've made a wise choice. Helps make it easier to get the appointment sooner when I ask later in the call.
Let's assume the lease programs really sucked this month, no residual or good rate. How would you answer the customer when they asked, "do you have any good lease specials this month?"
A. No, the programs are not very good this month.
B. We've got some great programs going on, when would you like to come in, now or later today?
If you chose B, then how is that any different than what I am saying.
Steve Richards wrote:2. You coached the sales person “go for the contact info first,” by using the thoroughly Neanderthal strategy of faking a reason to necessitate a call back; “are you calling from home or work?” The customer calls seeking information; the methodology you teach reverses the process and has the sales person sucking information out of the customer. Reverse psychology? No, just rude and ineffective.
If you want to get something from somebody you need to give them a reason to do so. If a sales rep gives out all the information, then there's no reason for the customer to give us any. On a specific car call we get to the contact info quickly after we play up the vehicle of interest. On a generic car call we do some qualifying of the customers needs and try and build rapport before getting contact info.
Have you ever heard of pacing and leading? Pace: So I don't waste your time let me do you a favor and check on the availability on that vehicle. Lead: Are you calling from home or work (notice the either or choice, hard to say no to that) and that number is (softly). How do I spell your last name, and your first name is?
When you give people choices it's a lot easier for them to pick one or the other. Try it next time you want to take your wife or boyfriend out to dinner somewhere. Maybe you'll even hear the clerk at McDonald's ask you, "would you like fries or a turnover with that?"
Steve Richards wrote:3. You coached the sales person to fake a discussion with their manager; “hold on, there’s my manager, let me check the vehicle’s availability.” Do prospective customers like being put on hold? Do you?
I am okay with them saying, "hey I was able to pull this up right now and it's available, when would you like to come in and see it, now or later today."
I like 15 seconds of hold time so the salesperson can gather their thoughts and prepare for where the call is headed.
Steve Richards wrote:4. You coached the sales person to “deflect” the caller’s questions. If you call a business seeking information and the person on the other end of the phone “deflects” your questions; does that cause you to warm up to them?
If somebody ask early in the call for say the miles or price, I teach them to deflect the question for later in the call. I want them to get contact info before giving out our info. So we'll say, " I am not sure and I'll check on that for you, but first let me make sure the vehicle is available... lead into asking for contact info. When we come back from hold, we tell them it's available and go for the appointment. You'll be surprised at how many people forget to ask the original question and will just make the appointment.
If they ask again then I give them the info they seek.
Steve Richards wrote:5. You coached the sales person to say; “I’m not sure about the price, we just took it in, but we sell more used BMW’s than anybody.” Classic evasive tactic, 40 year-old sales technology and in
Now when it comes to giving price on used, I don't think people should evaluate a used vehicle based on price. So I prefer to tell the customer this: "I am not sure of the price, but I can tell you all our vehicles are priced at or below book value. If they weren't we wouldn't be in business. (Sell dealership advantage here). Steve, the best thing for you to do is come down here and make sure you like this vehicle, if you do and I know you will, I promise you we will get you a great deal on this vehicle, otherwise I wouldn't expect to earn your business; when are you available to come in, now or later today?"
New car pricing should always be quoted as the entry level price. "We have those on sale for ___ and of course they go up based on equipment and options. When would you like to come in and pick one out, now or later today?"
And for the record, if at anytime a dealer is not comfortable with certain aspects of our script, we'll alter it to meet their needs.
Steve Richards wrote:6. I’m coachable, instead of putting this DE, I sent it to you.
We'll see about that! Oh and I'll be sending you an invoice for the training.
Steve Richards wrote:As for what I teach; I don’t “claim it’s the best.” I let the sales team members and customers judge that for themselves. I didn’t develop what I teach, Tom Watson did. He proved to me 10 years ago that what you (and I) had been taught about handling incoming phone calls was patently wrong. What I now teach is really short, really simple, and based on just a couple of principles; answer the prospective customer’s questions as honestly as you are able, then guide the prospective customer to suggest an appointment. The tactics employed include telling the truth and treating the prospective customer politely and with respect. It’s not the name and number that’s MOST important; it’s the appointment. Using a strategy that has the customer suggesting the appointment pretty much nets you the “name and number.” Answering the customer’s questions is polite. Exhibiting respect for the person with the money is considered a wise move by most people who understand selling. Lying, interrupting, deflecting, and putting people unnecessarily on hold doesn’t pass the “Polite and Respectful” test.
I wonder how many vehicles Tom Watson has sold, or how many phone-ups he's taken? Can you ask him for me and get back to me on that?
So when are you going to show us your phone scripts? Do you even have one? You just shooting from the hip here Steve? When is the last time you took a phone-up? Do you have any recordings of yourself in action? I'd like to hear them if you do.
We get results with the dealers that choose to procure our services. Matter of fact, here is a call that one of my coaches sent me this morning: Check this out
This salesperson is nailing appointment after appointment. This dealerships sales are up 70% this year and they have told us we are a big part of that. I had another dealer principle send me an e-mail the other day thanking me for helping him achieve a record July.
I've got proof that my material works, how about you?
Now who should I make that invoice out to for your coaching lesson, you personally or to your business?
Regards,
Jerry Thibeau
The Phone Ninja!
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Permalink Reply by Stanley Esposito on
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Wow,
I can't believe I am just seeing this now... Interesting stuff!
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Permalink Reply by Mike Stoner on
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I happen to love a great debate.
If negative statements were avoided at all costs it results in no debate. What is the Ben Franklin close about but positives and negatives?
If no one ever posted a negative (opposing) statement or always abstained from commenting if they didn't agree, then we all would be just a bunch of "yes men" and have what we do here, frequently, discussions with little to no comment. Frankly I think we have been done a great service by virtue of this thread. Ideally people will see that a good spirited debate stirs up interest and hopefully participation.
Great lessons are learned and discoveries made because someone at some point opposes the staus quo.
To use a baseball analogy I think most all the people on here have a pretty good batting average. The secret is finding that "sweet spot" on the bat to maximize every hit.
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Permalink Reply by Stan Sher on
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Everyone thinks their methods are the best. In reality, it is all just the opinion of what we automotive professionals think sounds right. I believe everyone has something that we can learn from. Jerry does an awesome job with his training. I may not agree with everything 100% but I am pretty close. I am a huge supporter of his and a fan of his work. That being said, I also like a lot of other training that I have experienced. I learned a lot and still continue to learn. We should just respect each other and the work that we provide to help the industry succeed. No one is perfect and no one method is the best out there. Let's practice having an open mind.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Stoner on
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Good post Stan.
The basic principle of debate is "let's agree to disagree".
Stan Sher said:Everyone thinks their methods are the best. In reality, it is all just the opinion of what we automotive professionals think sounds right. I believe everyone has something that we can learn from. Jerry does an awesome job with his training. I may not agree with everything 100% but I am pretty close. I am a huge supporter of his and a fan of his work. That being said, I also like a lot of other training that I have experienced. I learned a lot and still continue to learn. We should just respect each other and the work that we provide to help the industry succeed. No one is perfect and no one method is the best out there. Let's practice having an open mind.
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Permalink Reply by Lizelle Landino on
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Jerry! I am totally with you and I also have completely chosen to move away from negative talk and people. You are the only person responsible for you - you are the only one responsible your own success and failure. I did make a comment to you on facebook a few days ago. Funny how we started remember? I looked at your booth and your whole NADA stuff and I can gladly and proudly tell you Buddy....Good job! You worked really hard for it and I am proud to see you you shining on a new level! Rock on! FYI Attention should only be given to people who are extra ordinary. The ones who still cant get the sour ball out of their mouths are just too ordinary to waste all your great energy on! If this makes any sense to you....My dad use to tell me this when I grew up. Its in Afrikaans so the translation might be strange to you.... The Highest tallest Trees always get the most wind...In other words the people who succeed will always be fighting for some reason to not just be on top but stay at the top. Anyway, Have a great day! I wanted to tell you earlier that I am happy and proud of you. Have a great day buddy!
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Oh and for everyone else - no intend to anyone at all. I just speak on a general mind set. So if you pi$4ed Jerry off...its ok he is a big boy :-) Too much testosterone in here
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I thought this thread was destined for the shelves when Steve never replied to my rebuttal. That normally happens when one has been defeated.
I am not one to be negative or confrontational, but when verbally attacked or provoked, I'll stand up for what I believe in each and every time.
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