Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by NANCY SIMMONS on October 6, 2010 at 4:18pm

Writing from my phone, so keeping it brief.... I am with you 100% on this Sally.... I felt the importance to reply ASAP to get this discussion some activity. I am frankly appalled!

Permalink Reply by Juanita Kiesler on October 6, 2010 at 4:28pm

Interesting topic that has come up twice in a year. Media sensationalism? The distribution of this from industry leaders. Talk of a calendar. Sally, yes, many of us are offended as well and your correct, there is really no excuse for it. Is this how you want your mom or sister or daughter treated? Thanks for the voice on this Sally.

Permalink Reply by Sally Whitesell on October 6, 2010 at 6:49pm

Not in our Industry. Maybe they don't realize how women feel about car dealerships and salesmen. I have done a lot of research in this area and this is not where this industry should be going. A dealer in my area advertised using girls in Bikinis and his female clientele, the majority of consumers, fell considerably. Funny relpy though Manny! MANNY LUNA said:

Permalink Reply by Mark Dubis on October 7, 2010 at 8:57am

I am with you and was surprised but not totally shocked when I saw it on Ralph's website. For all the knowledge Ralph has about marketing and technology (and its a lot), there is still a large part of his thinking that is stuck in the car dealer milieu, and often the content he features on his site represents an "old school, Chauvinistic slant.

Those of us that have been followers on the site, ignore that stuff and look for the pearls of wisdom we can use to improve ourselves. If you work in auto retailing the first thing you need is a very tough skin. Sales is one of the greatest professions of all time but we are constantly being 'beat up" from various sides. If women directly or indirectly influence 80%+ of vehicle purchases they will most certainly "vote with their wallets" about things that offend them.

My sincere wish is that owners and managers some day wake up and discover what an incredible resource women are, and how critical their participation will be in changing how our industry is perceived. Any store that doesn't have at least one or two women on the sales floor is out of touch with reality.

As for the action to take about the article on ADM, you certainly have the option to post a complaint, leave the site and encourage all the women on the site to cancel their membership on the site. Having someone like Jody DeVere from AskPatty leave the site and cancel her membership would send a strong message. Her company's existence is all about educating dealers about women, their behaviors and how they want to be treated in the retail environment. Now's her chance to show how strongly she believes in her philosophy.

Based on Ralph's replies (and there are lots of them) on his site it is clear he has dug in and doesn't think he did anything wrong. it's not a question of first amendment rights but one of poor taste in what occasionally is held up as a professional forum.

That is probably the attitude of most men in the business and is evident in their replies to the post. There are a diverse group of people in this business and if we ditched them all because of a few character flaws, our industry might not be as robust as it is now.

Mark Dubis
Carfolks.com

Permalink Reply by NANCY SIMMONS on October 7, 2010 at 12:20pm

Thank you Mark Dubis!

As a 33 year veteran of the automobile business, I have fought this challenge for many years. I was educated in Commercial truck sales for a short period of time, as we needed x amount of certified people to qualify as a GM Commercial Truck location. It was funny when a commercial truck buyer came in the showroom and the salesperson paged me for assistance to see the look on the guy's face. Often I heard, "I want to speak with a guy", so I stepped back and allowed one of the male consultants to handle the transaction. As the male consultant continued to ask me for help to answer the customer's questions, some would break down and just say...Okay, I will talk to "her".. LOL
But, we have made great strides, but there still is a long way to go! Thanks so much for taking the time, Mark, to comment on this...much appreciated!!!!!




Mark Dubis said:

I am with you and was surprised but not totally shocked when I saw it on Ralph's website. For all the knowledge Ralph has about marketing and technology (and its a lot), there is still a large part of his thinking that is stuck in the car dealer milieu, and often the content he features on his site represents an "old school, Chauvinistic slant.

Those of us that have been followers on the site, ignore that stuff and look for the pearls of wisdom we can use to improve ourselves. If you work in auto retailing the first thing you need is a very tough skin. Sales is one of the greatest professions of all time but we are constantly being 'beat up" from various sides. If women directly or indirectly influence 80%+ of vehicle purchases they will most certainly "vote with their wallets" about things that offend them.

My sincere wish is that owners and managers some day wake up and discover what an incredible resource women are, and how critical their participation will be in changing how our industry is perceived. Any store that doesn't have at least one or two women on the sales floor is out of touch with reality.

As for the action to take about the article on ADM, you certainly have the option to post a complaint, leave the site and encourage all the women on the site to cancel their membership on the site. Having someone like Jody DeVere from AskPatty leave the site and cancel her membership would send a strong message. Her company's existence is all about educating dealers about women, their behaviors and how they want to be treated in the retail environment. Now's her chance to show how strongly she believes in her philosophy.

Based on Ralph's replies (and there are lots of them) on his site it is clear he has dug in and doesn't think he did anything wrong. it's not a question of first amendment rights but one of poor taste in what occasionally is held up as a professional forum.

That is probably the attitude of most men in the business and is evident in their replies to the post. There are a diverse group of people in this business and if we ditched them all because of a few character flaws, our industry might not be as robust as it is now.

Mark Dubis
Carfolks.com

Permalink Reply by Craig Lockerd on October 7, 2010 at 2:14pm

Be interesting to see what the women that were picked in this stupid thing have to say about being picked?...Did they have a choice? Did they agree to it? How do they feel now? Maybe I'll wander over to ADM and make a comment!

Permalink Reply by Sally Whitesell on October 7, 2010 at 2:39pm

Thanks for your input Mark. I have a program that completely focuses on selling to women in the service department so I agree with every point you made. Actually I have no interest in taking any kind of legal action and I am not promoting it at all, however, I have been told since I posted that it is illegal to publish such articles in a business publication. My only goal is to bring these "poor taste" articles to an end so women of the industry will be treated with the respect they deserve, based on performance and accomplishments, no matter how they look.

Mark Dubis said:

I am with you and was surprised but not totally shocked when I saw it on Ralph's website. For all the knowledge Ralph has about marketing and technology (and its a lot), there is still a large part of his thinking that is stuck in the car dealer milieu, and often the content he features on his site represents an "old school, Chauvinistic slant.

Those of us that have been followers on the site, ignore that stuff and look for the pearls of wisdom we can use to improve ourselves. If you work in auto retailing the first thing you need is a very tough skin. Sales is one of the greatest professions of all time but we are constantly being 'beat up" from various sides. If women directly or indirectly influence 80%+ of vehicle purchases they will most certainly "vote with their wallets" about things that offend them.

My sincere wish is that owners and managers some day wake up and discover what an incredible resource women are, and how critical their participation will be in changing how our industry is perceived. Any store that doesn't have at least one or two women on the sales floor is out of touch with reality.

As for the action to take about the article on ADM, you certainly have the option to post a complaint, leave the site and encourage all the women on the site to cancel their membership on the site. Having someone like Jody DeVere from AskPatty leave the site and cancel her membership would send a strong message. Her company's existence is all about educating dealers about women, their behaviors and how they want to be treated in the retail environment. Now's her chance to show how strongly she believes in her philosophy.

Based on Ralph's replies (and there are lots of them) on his site it is clear he has dug in and doesn't think he did anything wrong. it's not a question of first amendment rights but one of poor taste in what occasionally is held up as a professional forum.

That is probably the attitude of most men in the business and is evident in their replies to the post. There are a diverse group of people in this business and if we ditched them all because of a few character flaws, our industry might not be as robust as it is now.

Mark Dubis
Carfolks.com

Permalink Reply by Sally Whitesell on October 7, 2010 at 2:40pm

Let us know what you learn Craig.
Craig Lockerd said:

Be interesting to see what the women that were picked in this stupid thing have to say about being picked?...Did they have a choice? Did they agree to it? How do they feel now? Maybe I'll wander over to ADM and make a comment!

Permalink Reply by Sally Whitesell on October 7, 2010 at 2:42pm

I appreciate your willingness to take such a strong position on this subject. Thank you from the majority of hard working women in the industry. Nancy, thank you too!

NANCY SIMMONS said:

Jack Higginbotham did not join the group, but asked me to pass this along... Thanks Jack from all of us! I also informed him that it was posted by Digital Dealer!

Nancy,
Since I am not a member of Women in the industry group I was hoping that you might share my opinion to the group.

Obviously someone is still in the dark ages when it comes to the article "Sexiest Women in the Industry" or whatever it was called. I just wanted to let you all know that I believe the article was and is in poor taste and totally uncalled for in such an elite forum as this. I believe I speak for many of the men on this forum and want to let you know that we do not share the opinion of the author.

I know the old saying that sex sells, but I don'tr believe he was selling anything. In my opinion, the author should be barred from this forum. We are all professionals here and don't deserve that kind of trash here.

Just speaking my opinion here.

Thanks,
Jack

Permalink Reply by NANCY SIMMONS on October 7, 2010 at 4:34pm

From Dan Creamer who also asked me to post for him....
Nancy,
Please post this in the group Women in the Auto Industry for me providing you think it has merit.

I started selling cars in 1973 which unfortunately was a long time ago and metaphorically far, far away. Though I never saw Fred Flintstone or Wilma on the lot there were a fair number of dinosaurs working the sales floor. You would hear them call women sweetie, honey and darling and they always asked when can you bring back your husband?
My brother and brother in law who were both ten plus years older than I both impressed upon me the importance of treating a lady like a lady and an equal to her husband in terms of making the buying decision. Their take was if you embarrassed or insulted a women by treating her in a manner you would resent having your wife, daughter, sister or mother treated in you were not only morally wrong from the heart but stupid and insensitive from the brain.
I have always been grateful for that advice and know that I have sold many more cars for taking it to heart then I would have if I had followed the dinosaurs.

Permalink Reply by Cliff Banks on October 7, 2010 at 5:14pm

To clear up any confusion, as the vice president and editorial director of Dealer Communications (publisher of Dealer magazine, Digital Dealer magazine; Dealer Fixed Operations magazine and the Digital Dealer Conference & Expositions, www.dealer-magazine.com) we have nothing to do with this article, nor have we commented on it. From what I understand, this is an article on ADM's site with whom we have no official affiliation.

This is not the type of content you will find in any of our publications or on any of our sites.

Permalink Reply by Sally Whitesell on October 7, 2010 at 5:37pm

Thank you for clearing this up and taking a stand. I actually saw what looked like a cover of your magazine, "Digital Dealer" with this title on it. Was someone misrepresenting your magazine?

Cliff Banks said:

To clear up any confusion, as the vice president and editorial director of Dealer Communications (publisher of Dealer magazine, Digital Dealer magazine; Dealer Fixed Operations magazine and the Digital Dealer Conference & Expositions, www.dealer-magazine.com) we have nothing to do with this article, nor have we commented on it. From what I understand, this is an article on ADM's site with whom we have no official affiliation.

This is not the type of content you will find in any of our publications or on any of our sites.

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