Jim Ziegler wants to know: " It's 9:00 AM - Do You Know Where Your Inventory Is?"

DID YOU AUTHORIZE YOUR INVENTORY TO BE POSTED ON ANTI-DEALER OR HOSTILE WEBSITES?

5:00 AM and the Alpha Dawg is on the Point. Actually been awake since 4:00 AM. Did you ever have so much on your mind you couldn't sleep because you were thinking so hard? Well, a lot of side issues that came out of this Cars.com battle that are bothering me and I intend to pursue them.

First of all many people reported on the blogs and on Facebook and in Private Chats and Messages. That your inventory was showing up on TrueCar and CarGurus.

Well, that is troubling. One participant in the blogs emailed a statement that ALL of our vendors, or at least most them, are brokering off our inventory to other websites you didn't subscribe to. OR, perhaps buying and selling your inventory to brokers and listing services where other websites pick up your cars and put them on their own sites. The example they used in the email to me was a listing site the sender claimed to me was brokering your inventory back and forth between these lead generator vendors buying and selling inventory to each other... your inventory, for $6.00 to $12.00 each. I have not investigated fully but I believe there's got to be some truth to that in essence.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM RIGHT NOW WITH TRUECAR
I think their model revisions are as in line with dealers' best interests as any of the others.

BUT, I have a severe problem with CarGurus. I believe they are anti-dealer and NOT good for us or the consumer... my opinion based on what I have seen.

CarGurus is an alleged lead generation service that Tells The Consumer whether or Not Your Unit Pricing is a Good Deal or a Bad Deal (in their opinion?) During the course of all of this, one of my dealers discovered his Chevrolet Tahoes listed on CarGurus and labeled as a Bad Deal. The rub is He never gave any inventory listing to CarGurus. According to him, the only vendor he was aware of with his inventory was Cars.com. Have you checked, CarGurus to see if your cars are listed there when you don't do business with them????

I am not sure if Cars.com, AutoByTel, AutoTrader, or any of your vendors have the right contractually to do this. I am also researching that. They may be acting strictly within the rights you have signed away somewhere in the deep paragraphs buried in the text of your agreement with them. We will find out.

Here is the questionable language in the Cars.com contract you probably signed that allows them the right to ship out and export your inventory to God knows where to websites with questionable reputations?

4. Content. Customer grants Cars.com a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable, license to access, edit, store, enhance, modify, adapt, translate, copy, reproduce, distribute, transmit, broadcast, publish, perform and display publicly, prepare derivative works of, and otherwise use Content, and to sublicense such rights through multiple tiers. Cars.com reserves the right to modify the Sites and Products, and to edit or reject any Content or portion thereof from use on the Sites or Products in its sole discretion and without notice."

You and your dealer need to get this renegotiated OUT of the contract completely for your protection.

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Comment by Robert DeForge on May 6, 2013 at 9:17am: Just checked, and we have inventory on CarGurus. Sent a lead inquiry across on their site, and it is coming from our Ford Direct lead generator, which statred as a dealer driven website, but unsure if that is really the case these days :)

Comment by Doug Davis on May 5, 2013 at 8:37pm: James, you said you had no problem with TrueCar:

FORTUNE -- You can divide the automotive universe into two categories: those who paid too much for a new car and those who think they did. Such is the maddening process of visiting dealers, deciphering their "real" cost, and negotiating the labyrinth of fees. Revolutionizing the MO of car buying is the crusade of Scott Painter, the 43-year-old founder and CEO of TrueCar. Painter says the average savings for a TrueCar buyer is 9.7% off sticker price. Sometimes, where dealers have too much inventory, many buyers have paid less than dealer cost. "There's an average 25% range from top to bottom on what people pay for a commodity -- the exact same car," Painter says. "Buying a car should be more transparent. You don't have to trust the dealer anymore -- trust the data."

Reading this again, tell me this guy is not a snake. It is far worse than anything that is on whypaysticker or carpricesecrets. Anybody that does business with him gets what they deserve.

Comment by James A. Ziegler on May 5, 2013 at 3:55pm: CARS.COM ADMITS OWNING DEALER-BASHING WEBSITES. THEY SAY IT'S GOOD FOR US TO GET MORE LEADS AFTER THEY LOCATE PISSED OFF CUSTOMERS AND FUEL THE DISTRUST

(Jim Ziegler paraphrasing, read it yourself here)

Read this entire blog, scroll back and if you ever had doubts about Cars.com, you will see without a doubt they are NOT the nice guys they claim to be and they have no problem bashing you to make a buck.

www.whypaysticker.com

www.carpricesecrets.com

Stats on those sites average around 5000 visitors a day... I regressed the way those sites looked all of the way back to July of 2003 when they were put online. screenshots are increasingly evil. We have the screenshots so if anyone changes the sites we can show the history.

Comment by MANNY LUNA on May 5, 2013 at 12:49pm: It is was it is and it will never change, way to much money passing hands.... Build your own sites or spend day and night watching the wolfs eat your sheep!

Comment by Doug Davis on May 4, 2013 at 7:35pm: Manny, Do you consider Dallas to be wide open with no real competition?

I look at the eyes on AutoTrader and Cars.com. As long as they produce a great ROI, why wouldn't I use them?

Old School? To a degree. Old? For sure.

I don't disagree with what you are suggesting.

The internet is, by far, the most efficent media for advertising. Back when I was in a store, my department was the volume department in a large group but my budget was in the lower fifty percentile. If you have the right people and processes, you can afford to increase the budget, just to try new things. Most of what I have learned has been by trial and error. I always got additional budget when I asked.

Comment by MANNY LUNA on May 4, 2013 at 5:48pm: Doug Davis You sound a little old school on real internet marketing, It really surprises me that you would be so proud of any 3rd party lead site that helps you sell cars. That tells me that your market for online internet marketing is wide open with no real competition!

Here is a tip!

Car Dealer sites and 3rd party sites are so behind in real online marketing.

Dealers need to:

1. Have their own lead generating sites.

2. Have their own brand marketing site.

3. Have their own inventory branded site.

Hire someone in house to market the sites or hire a internet marketing company to do it for you!

And last "DO NOT SHARE YOUR INVENTORY WITH NO ONE!"

This will out preform all PPC Ads , Autotrader, Edmonds, Carsdotcom, TV, radio, and TRUECAR all together!

If anyone would like see how its done for free let me know!

Doug Davis yes for free I will show you how!

Comment by Bill Cosgrove on May 4, 2013 at 5:28pm: Add the saga continues and seems to be getting worse. I thought that being owned by some liberal media giants Cars.com, who are from outside the Automotive Industry would might be more transparent as part of their business model but if everything that is coming out is documented then I guess it is always ANYTHING FOR A BUCK ( For those of you who remember the Bob Newhart Show) for the big guys.

I stand correct for thinking that and I wonder what may be exposed elsewhere because Cars.com has stated that they won't disclose a list of their partners and practices unless they are vetted by people like Jim Ziegler and others. Big companies who are quarterly driven are run by Darrell-Darrell and Darrell (Again back to Bob Newhart) it's always anything for a buck. And I am not against making money just not at somebody else's expense.

This is why I have been preaching small is beautiful. Wake up because a lot of times when you turn over a rock there is sometimes more than one slimy creature crawling out. Whatever else is brought to light, market with smaller boutique marketers, companies and consultants who will care about you and not themselves and you will be a lot better for it and thank goodness there are people out there who care enough to talk about and expose this type of behavior.

Comment by Doug Davis on May 4, 2013 at 5:13pm: James, If you go to that old DealerRefresh thread, you will see my name all over it. I have read the verbage on these sites and they only state the obvious. This is the source of the newleadsplus program. I have sold a number of these and the customers always gave us a good CSI.

I wasn't a fan of the new email program. I would opt out of having my inventory going to cargurus and TrueCar. I believe this is beating a dead horse. WTF do ya'll want from Cars,com? Oral Sex ...ain't gonna happen! Honestly, I hope a bunch of dealerships terminate both Cars.com and AutoTrader. Most do a poor job with it, anyway. It will just make less competition for the ones that stay.

Comment by Doug Davis on May 4, 2013 at 4:33pm: Jim, I did exit interviews to better source my customers. I made sure my ISMs asked where they saw our cars. I listened to every phone call that came into the store. I found much of the traffic coming to my website actually came from AutoTrader and Cars.com. My ROI was extremely good for both. Even better once the leads were correctly sourced. Actually, the ROI for Cars was phenomenal.

I didn't like this new program and I don't want my inventory going to CarGurus or TrueCar. They have cancelled the new program and you can opt out of having your inventory posted to other sites. The internet is not a light switch. If you decide to cancel Cars, you won't feel the true impact for 90 days. If you decide to bring them back, you won't see a difference immediately.