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Comment by James A. Ziegler on December 9, 2011 at 9:29pm

STAN: Thank you for bringing these issues upfront....

I've listened to all of the Charles Kim and Devin (what's his name?) posts about how we're persecuting poor TrueCar and Zag... Charles here's the bottom line.... 

Cracking up reading this...tears streaming down my face laughing... "Minority?" No Charles we are the swelling majority coming at your dishonorable shady cause from all sides. TrueCar is on the run and we are going to turn up the heat even more. 

Personally, I like you a lot... you and I, we had some fun in Kansas City last spring. BUT, you and I both know what you and your company are doing is Wrong... Sorry about your stock options. 

I've talked to a number of people you've lobbied to support you and we both know, you're feeling like a leper... nobody wants to back TrueCar. You're posts reek of desperation because you know the tide is turning as the spotlight brightens. You got a couple of "Sellouts" to back you but the majority is growing and your company is losing. Scott Painter is a liability, can't keep his mouth shut.

Let's Face it, TrueCar - Zag would not need to be on these posts defending if we weren't gathering support for truth and what's right. 30,000 page views of people and 99% don't like your company! OR what you're trying to do to us!  We're pulling the plug on TrueCar and dealers everywhere are forwarding these posts to others.

My goal is to make Wall Street so nervous nobody would throw a nickle at investing in TrueCar - Zag because of your dishonorable intentions and thinly hidden, possibly illegal agenda. I smell your fear AND it is justified...Brace yourself...we're coming

Comment by James A. Ziegler on December 9, 2011 at 9:28pm

Thanks Stan: In answer to Charles Kim at TrueCar...

Charles, let me simplify this.... We don't believe you.

We don't like your company or your company's agenda....

Nothing you say is going to persuade us otherwise since there is a mountain of solid evidence that says otherwise.

Your company is evil (my opinion of course)

Your agenda is to destroy us...Scott painter said so... watch the video Charles, maybe you'll get it.

You got a couple of "Bell-Cow Sell-outs to support you"

You're still evil as a company.

We're NOT a minority, it's a growing movement and you're nervous.

Sorry about your stock options.

Get out of our Data-bases leave our customer information alone.

What you're doing might be illegal...I don't know but sure appears to be. 

Scott Painter might be a genius...most geniuses are nutcases... watch and be sure he doesn't cut off his own ear or something.

Be on the lookout for subpoenas from States Attorneys General about your business practices in conflict.

Watch for major manufacturers to boycott you ala Honda.

Dealer Associations don't like you BUT their hands are tied...  still they talk.

Federal privacy Laws are a slippery slope... somebody must be watching.

Several people have said you guys are selling and buying customer data...  I never said that because that would be a criminal, prosecutable offense if anyone ever got into "Discovery"

Charles, it appears to me that YOUR COMPANY IS IN DEEP DOO-DOO....  Warmly- JIM

Comment by Stan Sher on December 9, 2011 at 9:22pm

Part 2 

I think the dealers that were foolish enough to sign up tells me that there are not enough dealers reading our blogs and your sales staff is once again pitching them a product with no integrity whatsoever.  I know for a fact that a lot of dealers cancelled.

I am sorry that my very good friend (who I also admire) called you, your fellow employees and your cancer of a company for what you guys really are.  Let's be honest here.  If you meant well and were an honest and fair person you would not be working for a company like TrueCar.  

I am reading your so called and in reality they are not facts.  Look at how many consumers you guys pissed off at TrueCar.  Look at how many dealers you guys pissed off.  Come on man, stop lying to yourself.  If you want me to respect you, quit your job and go do something honorable.  Stop hurting business from providing opportunities for humanity.  These dealerships have employees that are working to provide for their families and your low-life of a boss (Scott Painter) wants to put them out of work.

Really?  What is so honorable about TrueCar?  You guys got some big players to be partners.  These big players are not on the front lines to see the damage that you are really doing.  Any when these big players start to see that your service pissed off their customers we will see how long they will keep being affiliated.

Just stop crying to us about fairness because you represent unfairness dude.

Comment by Stan Sher on December 9, 2011 at 9:21pm

A Message for Charles Kim of TrueCar...this was written for Automotive Digital Marketing but applies to Dealer Elite as well.

Charles,

Interesting stuff coming from a man who works for and represents a horrible company.  First of all, this community is completely fair.  This community is where people like myself create a name for themselves in the industry and build long lasting relationships that help enhance our careers.  This community has content that can literally build a dealership from the ground up.  This community has served the industry well and it is a shame that there are people that still have not joined (my opinion).  Ralph and his editors are full of integrity and are some of the top automotive people in the industry.  You see, unlike your employer (who is trying to destroy the automotive industry), this community is trying to help the industry and make our industry better.  If this includes fighting off nasty and unethical companies such as TrueCar/Zag (your employer) then so be it.

I have not seen where Tom Stuker made an opinion about it.  Be that as it may, I still respect the man for being a pioneer in the field that I work in.  Tom Stuker (right or wrong opinion) still works to help our industry.  If he is in support of your lousy program it is because he probably has not had a full understanding of it or experience of working with on the showroom floor.  The same thing goes for Grant Cardone (who I a lot of respect and appreciation for).  Grant does a service to help us sales professionals be motivated and be professional.  However, Grant has not worked a Zag lead.  Grant has not dealt with the troubles that retail automotive professionals are dealing with when working Zag and TrueCar leads.  What kind of close can you use when your $1000 behind triple net and you would rather not sell the car?  You know you are not going to get a customer to pay $2000 more just for you to break even.  Why?  Because your company (TrueCar) is making it that way.  Sometimes consultants who have not worked in a dealership for many years lose fate of the reality of the situation and we will spin propaganda just to motivate you and get you to stop thinking about reality.  No offense to Grant Cardone and Tom Stuker (I admire and respect the both of you).

Back to this community.  When I need to find out about how good a vendor is I use ADM.  When I needed help creating email templates I used ADM.  When I needed to find a job and connect with people I used ADM.  Ralph Paglia is the reason why Stan Sher is known by people.  Ralph Paglia and ADM helped create an idea that eventually moved onto various other social networks where Stan Sher has made a nationwide presence.  I learned to leverage it to become a speaker at dealer associations, to write for multiple publications, and to start my own company.  Thank you Ralph and ADM for what you do for the industry and for my career.

Let me tell you why your debate seems to be unfair and why it is impossible to show your point of view. YOUR COMPANY IS HURTING THE INDUSTRY IN MANY WAYS!!!  We have all seen the damage that TrueCar does.  You will never know what nightmares your employer has caused me in past in the retail world.  Read my blog (http://www.automotivedigitalmarketing.com/profiles/blogs/the-realit...).  When you represent the a bad company you will be treated like it (notice I had to carefully choose my words to biased just for you).  

Oh and if you don't have time to debate all of us.  Well then sit back and let us true automotive professionals do our thing and destroy your lousy company.  After all that is what it deserves.

I think the dealers that were fo

Comment by Stan Sher on December 8, 2011 at 9:44pm

LOL

Comment by Christine Nolden on December 8, 2011 at 11:32am

 

All Great and True ! Please do not submit fake leads as it kills the ratio of the person that has to work in the Internet Department. Not the solution! That is just not the right way to do this. Contact Mr. Painter and have him comment or have the stores drop TC Leads. This is all a big Bubble. Most of the TC leads are just shoppers anyway- there are compliance issues with ZAG currently and some stores are not posting any pricing. However others are!!; the greed is the issue.  Being the cheapest gig in town to beat another local Dealer in numbers, that is what I see. All the giveaway artists are destroying the marketplace.ASK for the money when the clients arrive. Quit giving it all away we are all selling a valuable product. We are a Retail not a Wholesale business. The entire issue is the Dealers that are going under invoice to make up for no report with customers and poor Management. Why not make a profit on all transactions. We all need to change our thinking. The data is only as good as what reality gives it to be....gross is a state of mind. Sell Value and TC will fade away or adjust to reality. Plus you can always drop a lead provider. This is the right way to solve the Market place. We are all in charge.One car deal at a time.

Comment by Stan Sher on December 7, 2011 at 11:10pm

A friend of mine is working with a previous client of mine for Phone Training.  This auto group uses TrueCar and Zag.com and they use it simply because they feel everyone is using it so they need to be too.  Well, he told me that they use UCS and that they never signed an agreement for Zag to go in and take their data.  Is it true?  Does UCS not allow vendors to access data?  Or maybe she was just mistaken and forgot that she let Zag rip her off.

Comment by Stan Sher on December 7, 2011 at 10:24pm

If you look at @truecar on twitter you will see they are not doing anything to defend themselves. I make it a point to look at who mentions them and send them a mention informing them of why they made a mistake being affiliated with them.  TrueCar has not done one thing to defend their online reputation.  A company with $200 million in funding that is ignoring shots that are being taken at them.

Comment by Stan Sher on December 7, 2011 at 10:16pm

Wow guys, look at Grant Cardone's video.  I am not surprised.  I love Grant and respect him for everything he does but I really think his comments prove that he has not experienced a TrueCar lead in a dealership.  He never seen a customer come in with a printout trying to buy a car at $1000 loss.  What kind of close will you use on that scenario?  Grant is being motivational and positive and I like what he is doing.  Again, I love what he does for us and our business but let's get a little more real here.  Check out his message. 

http://youtu.be/a9VE1pCqLCA

Comment by Keith Shetterly on December 7, 2011 at 9:38pm

EVERY person reading this thread should take a look at this video where they take pains to point out they use ACTUAL SALES TRANSACTIONAL DATA . . . http://blip.tv/this-week-in-youtube/truecar-1265643 and they claim 25% in this video, 75% was the goal, gathered data from banks . . . and banks, insurance, and ACTUAL DEALERS.  FROM SCOTT PAINTER'S OWN MOUTH.  At 6min57sec he says he uses data licensed from "ACTUAL DEALERS".  

DEALER DATA WARS:  REVOLUTIONS DON'T WAIT!

At 9min54 there is another discussion that's interesting.  In that minute after he goes into how this involves the BACKEND SYSTEMS OF DEALERS.  

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