TRUE CAR and ZAG Cyber Bandits, Parasites or Good for the Car Business?
Jim Ziegler asks...
I am hearing a lot of discussion about True Car and ZAG. I continually scratch my head and wonder if desperate dealers are doing the marketing limbo "How Low Can You Go?"
Are we so bad at what we do that we have to line up and pay vendors to lose money? AND, who is giving these people access to your data that is used against you?
Who owns these companies and what might be their ulterior motive? Sometimes I ask questions to which I already know the answer.
Am I wrong?
What do you think... JIM
Jim Ziegler's Guidance and Recommended Action Plan:
Ten Areas We Need to Concentrate on to Bring This Monster to It's Knees...
- Government investigation of ALL Data Aggregators taking consumer information from dealers' DMS. Sadly enough, dealers who do business with TrueCar are exposed to liability charges. Cut off all access to unecessary data, no matter who takes it from the dealers DMS and make it illegal to "resell identifiable consumer data" and "transactional data".
- Educate Your Fellow Dealers; If anyone takes financial transactional data, they expose the dealer that allowed it to violations, especially if it is passed on to other vendors or shared.
- Educate Consumers to what they're doing with their information...
a. You buy a car from a dealer, do you really want your personal information, and maybe even your financial information, passed along and sold and shared by "God knows who?"
b. These People Charge the Dealer $300 which the dealers have to build into the deal
c. Your Privacy and the Security of your Information could theoretically compromise your identity if you do business a company that takes data from the dealership. - Educate Investors and potential investors they could possibly be mislead if anyone is telling them this is a safe investment because of all of the dealers pushing back, associations pushing back, and government regulators in many states coming after TrueCar's business model as NOT compliant, in some cases they're saying it is Not Legal.
- AMEX, USAA and all of their affiliates do not want the bad consumer relations this push back is creating with their members and customers.
- Cancel your dealership's Affilation with TrueCar. Tell people with TrueCar certificates that YOU don't honor TrueCar and you feel the company is NOT reputable. Educate consumers as to perceived data exposure if they buy from a TrueCar dealer. Make sure that each consumer knows that using TrueCar actually increases their vehicle cost by $300 to $400.
- Make the dealers selling at huge losses take all of those deals. Big problem right now is too many Nissan Dealers and others are taking huge losers to get the factory money. The TrueCar reverse-auction business model will continually push those numbers down until the factory money is non-existent. Consumers need to hear from many dealers, "We don't do TrueCar"
- Keep calling your National and State Dealer Associations demanding they get involved and stay involved... No excuses.
- Get the Manufacturers into the game. If GM, Ford, Toyota, and other majors change the rules about how we advertise and do business to protect the dealers, we can cut off their ability to set pricing. So keep it up at every dealer meeting. Call your Dealer Council Members and protest to your factory reps. Tell the manufacturers, if they want showroom and facility improvements, we need the ability to make fair profits.
- Tell everyone you know. Educate other dealers and industry people. Watch the Painter interviews... I believe this is the first time a vendor has publicly announced they intend to bring down the dealers and hijack our business, taking our profits and starving us out with our own data. Painter has said manufacturers and dealers should go bankrupt and he, in his God-like way "will control distribution..."
When the TrueCar-Yahoo Deal kicks in we need to stand firm and "Just Say No" we don't honor TrueCar deals.
Read this article as a reference: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20110831%2FFIN...
AND, if you doubt the mission... read this... http://www.zag.com/websiteASSETS/whitepapers/ZAG-WhitePaper3.pdf
Comment
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Comment by David T. Gould on February 13, 2012 at 10:01am
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Jay, I look forward reading your feedback on your meeting with Mike Timmons and what vehicle data is necessary. I stand by with reservations on whether limiting TrueCar's requirement of direct access to dealership DMS will bring about any real change. My gut tells me they are getting it from their "partners" and "affiliates". Anonymous or not, purchase price does not have to be exported. I am glad you (and I have word that at least one other here) are continuing dialog with TrueCar (Michael Timmons). Stomping our feet and holding our breath is not going to make effective progress. Bring us back some good info Jay! DTG
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Comment by Mike Warwick on February 13, 2012 at 9:56am
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The word has defintely gotten out and many vendors who need DMS acess are willing to change their MSA's to state that they will only pull the necessary fields and most have agreed to add a clause that clearly states that they will not "repurpose" or sell your data to third parties but you have to be proactive and ask for these changes.
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Comment by Jay Prassel on February 13, 2012 at 9:47am
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Just a quick note as I'm heading to the airport this morning. I wasn't planning on attending NADA because of my travel schedule, but after hearing from several dealers concerning TrueCar, I made the trip. Some were already TC dealers and had questions about their "exposure" (I have done many expert witness deals for dealers who have been sued for payment packing, deceptive practices, non-disclosure, etc) with sharing customer data.
The main issue was if the dealer was using the correct Privacy Notice to disclose this to the consumer. Nobody was compliant and in fact, most dealers are not, whether a TC dealer or not.
I visited the TC Suite on two different occasions for about 4 hours and met with several execs, including Mike Timmons. I asked many questions and Mike was very cooperative (as were others) and professional.
I did ask specifically about TC needing DMS access and/or if a dealer can send reports with the required data. I was told that they have dealers who push information on a scheduled time-frame.
I am hoping to write an article on the interview, with questions and the answers. I have reached out to Mike and it should come together this week. If anyone here has specific questions (there's plenty posted already), please message me.
Questions asked: What customer data do you need? What vehicle data is necessary?
Once Mike and I talk, I'll post the update. I'm sure he'll be fine with it.
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Ok Jay, now we are getting somewhere. Can you (or any others out there) be more specific about the "push" requirements? Also to clarify, is the "push" you are referring to the dealer "pushing" data to the vendor VS. the vendor "pulling" data from the the dealer?
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@David, you not only are right on with your suggestion, but it's easy to do. Don't allow any vendor to have complete access to your F&I or Accounting modules. Only provide the required fields necessary. TrueCar told me that they have dealers that "push" information to them and they do not have any DMS access.
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Good morning Jim and Thomas,
Jim, absolutely USAA (ZAG) is turning over military personnel's information in the guise that they are getting a better deal. (Note: there is a different "in network" now for group buying plans starting beginning of this year)
Thomas, Federal government is the internet. Doubt that and all you have to do is check out China and Iran. At the flip of a switch we can all be off line. The federal government having access to our personal information (IRS) is not new. Corporations acquiring, assembling, distributing and using our information against us IS new.
I am known for not communicating my ideas well at times because of my assumptions that others think the way I do. Does anyone else out there see the value in cutting off the source of the purchase data? No acts of Congress required. No moving of mountains to get the Data War won. Just simply lock down the data. Start with a simple area (field). Purchase price. Focus on getting that information secured. In my opinion, accomplishing that would drop the house of cards.
Anyone else?
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Comment by Thomas A. Kelly on February 13, 2012 at 5:43am
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The bottom line may be an act of congress may be necessary to plug the leaks and stop the assembling of random data collected from "30 plus sources" making the net result personally identifiable......but I see little chance of that as the government relies on the method to do the same. Keep in mind once any "scraps" of anatomized info goes offshore, all bets are off and the post 911 Fed is free to grab it, fully assembled from where ever they can get it. To deny it to corporate is to deny it to themselves. Buried somewhere in this thread is examples of the Fed doing just that, relying on info going to a country not bound by our laws and then "legally" retrieving the full picture created by offshore entities. Just a thought.
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Comment by James A. Ziegler on February 13, 2012 at 5:39am
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One of the things I really wonder about ... "Is TrueCar getting data on USAA customers (military personnel) from USAA? Would really like to see that relationship investigated too.
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Comment by Christian Serbes on February 12, 2012 at 8:19pm
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Thank you...I appreciate the info...that's why I'm here
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If yours is the same, you can expect bills (and polling) for a couple more months... it's all in the fine print my friend.
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