TRUE CAR and ZAG Cyber Bandits, Parasites or Good for the Car Business?
Jim Ziegler asks...
I am hearing a lot of discussion about True Car and ZAG. I continually scratch my head and wonder if desperate dealers are doing the marketing limbo "How Low Can You Go?"
Are we so bad at what we do that we have to line up and pay vendors to lose money? AND, who is giving these people access to your data that is used against you?
Who owns these companies and what might be their ulterior motive? Sometimes I ask questions to which I already know the answer.
Am I wrong?
What do you think... JIM
Jim Ziegler's Guidance and Recommended Action Plan:
Ten Areas We Need to Concentrate on to Bring This Monster to It's Knees...
- Government investigation of ALL Data Aggregators taking consumer information from dealers' DMS. Sadly enough, dealers who do business with TrueCar are exposed to liability charges. Cut off all access to unecessary data, no matter who takes it from the dealers DMS and make it illegal to "resell identifiable consumer data" and "transactional data".
- Educate Your Fellow Dealers; If anyone takes financial transactional data, they expose the dealer that allowed it to violations, especially if it is passed on to other vendors or shared.
- Educate Consumers to what they're doing with their information...
a. You buy a car from a dealer, do you really want your personal information, and maybe even your financial information, passed along and sold and shared by "God knows who?"
b. These People Charge the Dealer $300 which the dealers have to build into the deal
c. Your Privacy and the Security of your Information could theoretically compromise your identity if you do business a company that takes data from the dealership. - Educate Investors and potential investors they could possibly be mislead if anyone is telling them this is a safe investment because of all of the dealers pushing back, associations pushing back, and government regulators in many states coming after TrueCar's business model as NOT compliant, in some cases they're saying it is Not Legal.
- AMEX, USAA and all of their affiliates do not want the bad consumer relations this push back is creating with their members and customers.
- Cancel your dealership's Affilation with TrueCar. Tell people with TrueCar certificates that YOU don't honor TrueCar and you feel the company is NOT reputable. Educate consumers as to perceived data exposure if they buy from a TrueCar dealer. Make sure that each consumer knows that using TrueCar actually increases their vehicle cost by $300 to $400.
- Make the dealers selling at huge losses take all of those deals. Big problem right now is too many Nissan Dealers and others are taking huge losers to get the factory money. The TrueCar reverse-auction business model will continually push those numbers down until the factory money is non-existent. Consumers need to hear from many dealers, "We don't do TrueCar"
- Keep calling your National and State Dealer Associations demanding they get involved and stay involved... No excuses.
- Get the Manufacturers into the game. If GM, Ford, Toyota, and other majors change the rules about how we advertise and do business to protect the dealers, we can cut off their ability to set pricing. So keep it up at every dealer meeting. Call your Dealer Council Members and protest to your factory reps. Tell the manufacturers, if they want showroom and facility improvements, we need the ability to make fair profits.
- Tell everyone you know. Educate other dealers and industry people. Watch the Painter interviews... I believe this is the first time a vendor has publicly announced they intend to bring down the dealers and hijack our business, taking our profits and starving us out with our own data. Painter has said manufacturers and dealers should go bankrupt and he, in his God-like way "will control distribution..."
When the TrueCar-Yahoo Deal kicks in we need to stand firm and "Just Say No" we don't honor TrueCar deals.
Read this article as a reference: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20110831%2FFIN...
AND, if you doubt the mission... read this... http://www.zag.com/websiteASSETS/whitepapers/ZAG-WhitePaper3.pdf
Comment
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Comment by James A. Ziegler on February 12, 2012 at 3:20pm
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My apologies guys (gals) I was ready to back off of TrueCar a little and move on to other things associated with data BUT then, he just can't help himself.... Scott Painter interviews with Wall Street Journal taking shots at dealers Again and how stupid we are and how his is the TrueWay and he is the TrueMessiah.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/02/11/your-money/car-dealers-wince-a...
Okay gloves are off and we're going to re-mobilize TrueCar Awareness with the dealers. All they are doing is "Saying" their changing their model...it all a lie. They're just waiting for the heat to die down. Painter is so damn arrogant he can't help himself. Please read this crap he's spewing here and comment. JIM
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Comment by David T. Gould on February 11, 2012 at 9:33am
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I like the "vapor to solid" analogy. Good to see dealers "getting it". Efforts like this one here with leaders like Jim Z. are bringing the data procurement issue (data wars) to critical mass. 35112 views, Nice.
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Comment by Thomas A. Kelly on February 11, 2012 at 5:02am
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Comment by Michael Timmons on February 9, 2012 at 7:19am
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Jim, My intent was never to soften anyone up on any TC issues but to have an intelligent dialogue, understand the concerns and assist in making changes that WILL benefit the dealer. I did see the first blog (because you mentioned my name) and didn't post because the majority was written in anger of something I would never defend. I know you don't care for me but nevertheless, if Scott hadn't reached out to apologize I would have. This should remain a professional forum and in no way should family be brought into it.
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Just got in on this... is this about my original version of the blog post where I introduced Data Wars? I actually wrote that on the plane flying back from Las Vegas and posted it that evening. Upon re-reading it the next morning after I finally got some rest, I thought it was too harsh even by my standards.... so I edited it and re-posted it. No real problem, it was factual BUT I don't want to ever go as low as the competition is willing to go, or even in the neighborhood. SO I rewrote first thing in the morning. It was only up in that version for a few hours late night, and there were no posts above it...so very few if anybody saw it.
I edit and rewrite things a lot here. I also move relevant items back up to the top of the first page when they are moved down sometimes.
I am still obviously very angry that Steven Dietz would bring my family into this discussion. AND all of the things I said describing him are actually my real personal feelings BUT I decided to tone it down and edited it.
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Is it time to back off and give TrueCar a rest?
When I started these blogs back on November 27th WE came together and voiced our opinions and the entire industry heard us. At the time I believe that TrueCar was the biggest threat to out industry that has ever existed...and that threat still exists in other vendors extracting, assimilating, reselling, re-purposing and sharing dealers' data from our DMS.
The industry mobilized and we have prevailed. I am pleased we handed them some humility. They are arrogant, and consider themselves "superior" intellectually...and possibly genetically to us "Car Folks". How many times has Scott Painter talked Down to us saying we just don't get it?
We cannot let our guard down or think we've won the war. There are companies like Edmunds and CarFax who need to come under close scrutiny. What possible reason could either of these companies have to extract dealer data? ...and then use our own information against us. If I were a dealer I would never give it up and would throw all intruders out of my DMS. Even if I were to allow them access, they should be paying us for the data they resell for a profit? Painter has said repeatedly they get most of their data from other sources BUT what we need to realize is those other sources he refers to originally stole the data from a dealer DMS.
I promise you there are thousands of dealers who are totally unaware there are so many vendors taking so much information out of their systems. Clauses hidden in their contracts that went unnoticed.
The larger battle is only beginning. 2012 is the year of The Data Wars we are going to educate the entire industry and we will villainize These Data Pirates and throw them out with the bath water.
Any vendor who is extracting Data, sharing data, re-purposing data, reselling transactional or personally identifiable data... we're putting you on notice... YOU'RE GOING DOWN.
We realize that some vendors need some information to perform your services, and we urge the dealers to release that data specifically with a firm written agreement that it won't be shared or resold or published.
AND all data released to a vendor must be signed off by the dealer principal or corporate officer, NOT some low level employee.
In short, be advised... We're Coming.
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I've decided to wait and see what happens with TrueCar. From the beginning it was never my intent to see them totally destroyed, although that was always Scott Painter's goal to destroy the retail car dealerships.
If their new business plan restructures them to being another competitive "Lead Provider" ...not setting prices, then I'm all for backing off completely. As a matter of fact, I might want to talk one-on-one with Scott Painter about it. I have other windmills to fight. Right now nobody trusts them.
I had some really sinister things brewing concerning these people, BUT if what I am seeing, reading and hearing is TrueDisclosure I am prepared to back off the tribe and maybe even work with them some. The biggest issue still remains... Is TrueCar willing to get out of the Dealers' DMS systems? Their new business model gives them no need to extract any data at all if they're sincere.
I spoke with hundreds of dealers in the last few days and most of them congratulated and thanked me for spear-heading the Anti-TrueCar movement.
I saw Michael Timmons at one of the evening events... reached out and shook my hand and told me his name. ... to which I answered... "YES, I know." and I kept on walking. Excuse me! This guy is one of the them. He is the warm and fuzzy, former "AutoNation" guy who I believe is here to soften everyone up on the real issues. I am sure Timmons is a decent guy and all of that BUT I am not yet ready to be pals with these guys. NOW... that is my opinion based on a keen understanding of how this works.
I do not believe TrueCar has a chance unless their board of directors totally removes Scott Painter... too many car people just flat out don't like him, don't believe him or trust him.
I also believe Charles Kim is a liability to their continued survival. If I were on the TrueCar board of directors, we would have to make a decision concerning Charles' future.
The incident with Steven Dietz , Partner at GRP Partners messaging me my son's arrest record and arrest photo was, in my opinion, over-the-top tactic by a person who is not decent. It showed me these are not ethical people, nor are they honorable by most people's standards of morality..
Now I am not saying Steven Dietz is a pompous, arrogant, full-of-himself, idiot...that is a decision only you can make based on his actions and self control or lack of it.
All I can say, is what kind of guy would do the things he's done and made the questionable (by me) decisions he's made? Would you consider this guy to be an out-of-control loose cannon? I don't know the answer to that...read everything and guard your investments is all I can say. If I were an investor I'd run...run very fast...away from anything Steven Dietz and GRP Partners was involved with. Of course this is all my opinion because I am still in a in a surly mood over what he tried to do bringing my family into it.
I am extremely gratified and relieved that Scott Painter of TrueCar had the decency and the personal integrity to call me personally and apologize for what this Steven Dietz did bringing my family into it.My kid was arrested when he was 21 years old for driving without a license. Who's kid hasn't had something similar at one time or another? AND Steven Dietz was going to use it to blackmail me?
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Comment by Keith Shetterly on February 9, 2012 at 12:04am -
@ David: What's exciting is that, by doing this on a highly-indexed site, it helps me track him down.
Want his birthday, for starters? 6/16/1979 . . . Muwahhhhahahahahahaaaaaa! Don't mess with a guy who goes back to a time in computers that used paper punch tape. :)
I hope to never hear from or about him again. And I do that "x editing" all the time, too. He just wanted to pick a fight.
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