TRUE CAR and ZAG Cyber Bandits, Parasites or Good for the Car Business?
Jim Ziegler asks...
I am hearing a lot of discussion about True Car and ZAG. I continually scratch my head and wonder if desperate dealers are doing the marketing limbo "How Low Can You Go?"
Are we so bad at what we do that we have to line up and pay vendors to lose money? AND, who is giving these people access to your data that is used against you?
Who owns these companies and what might be their ulterior motive? Sometimes I ask questions to which I already know the answer.
Am I wrong?
What do you think... JIM
Jim Ziegler's Guidance and Recommended Action Plan:
Ten Areas We Need to Concentrate on to Bring This Monster to It's Knees...
- Government investigation of ALL Data Aggregators taking consumer information from dealers' DMS. Sadly enough, dealers who do business with TrueCar are exposed to liability charges. Cut off all access to unecessary data, no matter who takes it from the dealers DMS and make it illegal to "resell identifiable consumer data" and "transactional data".
- Educate Your Fellow Dealers; If anyone takes financial transactional data, they expose the dealer that allowed it to violations, especially if it is passed on to other vendors or shared.
- Educate Consumers to what they're doing with their information...
a. You buy a car from a dealer, do you really want your personal information, and maybe even your financial information, passed along and sold and shared by "God knows who?"
b. These People Charge the Dealer $300 which the dealers have to build into the deal
c. Your Privacy and the Security of your Information could theoretically compromise your identity if you do business a company that takes data from the dealership. - Educate Investors and potential investors they could possibly be mislead if anyone is telling them this is a safe investment because of all of the dealers pushing back, associations pushing back, and government regulators in many states coming after TrueCar's business model as NOT compliant, in some cases they're saying it is Not Legal.
- AMEX, USAA and all of their affiliates do not want the bad consumer relations this push back is creating with their members and customers.
- Cancel your dealership's Affilation with TrueCar. Tell people with TrueCar certificates that YOU don't honor TrueCar and you feel the company is NOT reputable. Educate consumers as to perceived data exposure if they buy from a TrueCar dealer. Make sure that each consumer knows that using TrueCar actually increases their vehicle cost by $300 to $400.
- Make the dealers selling at huge losses take all of those deals. Big problem right now is too many Nissan Dealers and others are taking huge losers to get the factory money. The TrueCar reverse-auction business model will continually push those numbers down until the factory money is non-existent. Consumers need to hear from many dealers, "We don't do TrueCar"
- Keep calling your National and State Dealer Associations demanding they get involved and stay involved... No excuses.
- Get the Manufacturers into the game. If GM, Ford, Toyota, and other majors change the rules about how we advertise and do business to protect the dealers, we can cut off their ability to set pricing. So keep it up at every dealer meeting. Call your Dealer Council Members and protest to your factory reps. Tell the manufacturers, if they want showroom and facility improvements, we need the ability to make fair profits.
- Tell everyone you know. Educate other dealers and industry people. Watch the Painter interviews... I believe this is the first time a vendor has publicly announced they intend to bring down the dealers and hijack our business, taking our profits and starving us out with our own data. Painter has said manufacturers and dealers should go bankrupt and he, in his God-like way "will control distribution..."
When the TrueCar-Yahoo Deal kicks in we need to stand firm and "Just Say No" we don't honor TrueCar deals.
Read this article as a reference: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20110831%2FFIN...
AND, if you doubt the mission... read this... http://www.zag.com/websiteASSETS/whitepapers/ZAG-WhitePaper3.pdf
Comment
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Comment by Michael Timmons on February 6, 2012 at 1:55pm
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@ David, I am with you, the first time I heard the phrase "Sock Puppeting" I searched Google. I can assure you if I post it will be in my name and all information I have posted has been accurate down to my home address. We met with many dealers, OEM's and industry colleagues that were interested in having a better understanding of our business and more importantly the newest changes. All the current TC dealers echoed the same concerns and I am confident we have addressed the majority of the concerns and will continue to become a more dealer friendly company. The fact is that we messed up horribly in many areas and we are correcting that. I hope everyone that attended NADA enjoyed the convention, the parties and seeing old friends. I am heading home!!
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Comment by Keith Shetterly on February 6, 2012 at 1:45pm -
@ David: It wasn't set to private when it was created. I saw it. Pretty empty at that time. No dealership website, etc. THEN.
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Comment by David T. Gould on February 6, 2012 at 1:43pm
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@thomas... you have spent a good deal of time chasing "John Zeiglar"... why the benefit of the doubt here with Robert Mankowski who has his profile set on private and no significant dealership automotive google ranking. My opinion, sock puppet. until "Mr. Robert Mankowski" shows otherwise.
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Comment by Thomas A. Kelly on February 6, 2012 at 1:25pm
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Very well put Keith!....
For those who do not know from where I come, I submit:
"My views and my opinions are my own. I represent no one other than myself. I work for a dealership in a one man department as an event/special project manager/coordinator, I love my job and intend to stay there for as long as they find me useful. I have no desire to work for anyone one else, full or part time. I have no financial ties with any vendors or consultants. I am personally responsible for everything I say on this and any other forum where I express my opinion. I am not an attorney, nor do I give legal advice. My list of qualifications is very short. My skills are very basic and I am not technically trained to give anyone any advice. I have no formal education beyond high school. I love the automotive industry, it has fed and educated my family well over the years. I live in America and I express my opinions often. Over my years I have been bent over by some of the best in more than one industry. I am old and my back is getting tired. That’s my story anyways….keep looking, and if you find something to the contrary, please post it, you know I would."
Thomas A. Kelly
2197 Tall Oaks
Davison, Mi. 48423
810-938-1168
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Comment by Keith Shetterly on February 6, 2012 at 1:13pm
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@Thomas: For the record, I hear your position but I am NOT okay with supportive posts from "murky" or anonymous posters. I am who I say I am, and have been always from the beginning here and at ADM. Membership here and elsewhere is devalued when it isn't clear who is doing the posting from where. For example, once on these threads there was a paid YouTuber who posted incendiary points on TrueCar just to get clicks.
Anyway, I am who I say I am and have proved it many times. My comments are mine, and I don't make a dime on the TrueCar issue any way it resolves. I have no direct financial interest in any direction. And I can swear to it in a court.
Anyone posting advice for dealers had better, imho, be prepared to do the same. OR JUST DO A FULL DISCLOSURE of their relationship to any business interest of theirs. And it seems the FTC agrees with me. Thanks!
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@ David, If in fact Mr.Mankowski is who he says he is, a dealer, and has done as he claims, enjoyed success with TC as a dealer, met with other dealers about TC, etc. then he would not be a sock puppet, he would simply be a commenter that wishes to be heard and who does not want to have his identity disclosed, for what ever reason(s) he chooses. I am good with that, but I weigh his comments accordingly.
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@thomas, remarkable how similar this is to your other posts.
@mike, the term, which I did not know until thomas posted recently, is "Sock Puppeting"
Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/16/technology/16blog.html?pagewante...
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Comment by Keith Shetterly on February 6, 2012 at 12:13pm
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Huh. I went to www.lmgtfy.com twice, and these are the two items that came up:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20120204%2FRETAIL06%2F302059975
FTC: Bloggers who shill must also tellOct 6, 2009 4:22 PMThe Federal Trade Commission voted unanimously on Monday to require bloggers and other Internet opinion makers to tell consumers if they received payment for their review of a promoter’s product or service.
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Comment by Jay Prassel on February 6, 2012 at 11:22am
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The Privacy Notice question should be a concern for all dealers, especially those (most) who allow third-party access to their DMS. Make sure you're making the proper disclosures and providing an opt-out when required by law. It became a lot more complicated after Jan 2011.
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