The Traditional 4Square In Todays Market
Having first started selling cars in 1982, I was taught the traditional 4square. At this Toyota dealership in the Denver Colorado area, you hardcore 4square every customer or they turned the write-up to another salesperson who could or would. You never discounted price if there was a trade in, you always over allowed. Banks always required 1/3 cash down and you always hit the customer 3 times in each box before writing their offer down. Over the years, I've now seen desk managers accept write-ups with incomplete credit apps, with incomplete information about the car they are selling, and with just the customers offer written in each box with the salesperson not even attempting to set the customer up with higher amount. I know over the years customers have become increasingly more educated and tolerate less bull from sales people. But should a good sales person be able to 4square any customer no matter how educated or is the 4square out dated and should not be used anymore?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Tim Pendergast on
-
I used the 4 square in A BMW/VW store and grosses and CSI went up.
If you tell the customer you want to show them a few options before you flip over write up, they are fine, and a few will even pony up the big down payment. It works great on cash customers as well. It all depends on how it is presented. It has to be presented as an OPTION not a requirement.
You can say or present anything to anyone, it's all in how you say it.
Why do we all over analyze this business. We have a product, consumer wants and needs it. Present product right and with logical ways to pay for it and they will buy.
A four square used properly is no different than a Finance Menu, it gives the customers options, and they see all 4 parts of deal.
Price, trade value, down payment, and payment.
And god forbid we make a profit while selling a car.... -
-
Permalink Reply by Jack Higginbotham on
-
AMEN brother!!
Tim Pendergast said:I used the 4 square in A BMW/VW store and grosses and CSI went up.
If you tell the customer you want to show them a few options before you flip over write up, they are fine, and a few will even pony up the big down payment. It works great on cash customers as well. It all depends on how it is presented. It has to be presented as an OPTION not a requirement.
You can say or present anything to anyone, it's all in how you say it.
Why do we all over analyze this business. We have a product, consumer wants and needs it. Present product right and with logical ways to pay for it and they will buy.
A four square used properly is no different than a Finance Menu, it gives the customers options, and they see all 4 parts of deal.
Price, trade value, down payment, and payment.
And god forbid we make a profit while selling a car.... -
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Richards on -
Jack, you are right. Presented correctly the "4-square" is a full disclosure doc which helps the sales person customize the the way they sell to the way the customer wants to buy. Aaron; you're right regarding how the 4-square presentation is made by most sales people - most don't have a clue how to present the 4-square intelligently and honestly. Most trainers and managers don't either which is why sales people are made to look like such bufoons. Using lines like "the bank requires 1/3 down" is a flat LIE. The customer knows it so everything the sales person had done to build up trust to that point is for naught - and the sales person just did what he/she was trained to do. Go figure.
Jack Higginbotham said:Thanks Fran, at least I know I'm not alone here!! The major problem with any system starts at the desk. If the manager is lazy and not doing his job properly, no system will work. I have worked 4square with some very high volume very successful stores so I guess I am very biased.
Fran Taylor said:Four square is alive and well. Some of the most profitable and biggest stores I work with all use a variation of the four square. All have good CSI and happy customers.
The managers are like Jack said , not lazy and get information before working the deal. When you stay at the bottom of the four square you never loose money. 94% of buyers do business on down payment and monthly payment according to NADA. The difference is the manager has the customer on the right car before the deal is penciled. Hard to up set anyone when this is done correctly.
I know dealers that don't do the four square and are successful. It all boils down to what process the dealer wants to do. It is all about training your people. -
-
Permalink Reply by Steve Richards on
-
Well put, thank you.
Tim Pendergast said:I used the 4 square in A BMW/VW store and grosses and CSI went up.
If you tell the customer you want to show them a few options before you flip over write up, they are fine, and a few will even pony up the big down payment. It works great on cash customers as well. It all depends on how it is presented. It has to be presented as an OPTION not a requirement.
You can say or present anything to anyone, it's all in how you say it.
Why do we all over analyze this business. We have a product, consumer wants and needs it. Present product right and with logical ways to pay for it and they will buy.
A four square used properly is no different than a Finance Menu, it gives the customers options, and they see all 4 parts of deal.
Price, trade value, down payment, and payment.
And god forbid we make a profit while selling a car.... -
-
Permalink Reply by Tobias Sedillos on
-
Personally, I think the foursquare is outdated. I feel that it puts the salespersons mind and heart in the wrong place – in terms of focusing on gross instead of relationships. Because very few newer salespeople know how to correctly negotiate a deal by being giving, but in control of the increments; I feel a lot of salespeople actually lose gross with this tool, create resistance, and ruin trust thereby decreasing the likelihood of repeat or referral business with the client.
-
-
-
Like I said earlier the 4 square is the same as a finance menu, take out some of the old verbage and you have full non confrontational disclosure to customer.
I trained my people to present it as an option and then we worked from there, we never said the banks require, we stated with 1/3rd down you can do a short term loan and keep your trade cycle at 2 to 3 years and not carry a ton of negative equity over.
Most customers would point to trade box and say I want more for trade,or they wanted less payment. Then the salespeople know the objections before they come back to desk...
And when did GROSS become such a bad word? No profit no jobs
As far as repeat and referrals, why don't we MAKE our salespeople stand in service line at least twice a day. Hell most stores i have been in lately you almost have to kick someone to talk to a customer if they come back in store with a problem after the sale. I have manager after manager say I can't fix that we only made 200 on that deal etc.. yet they dropped their pants on first pencil to make a deal and make customer happy. And then the follow up was a joke. If you don't ask for it, you'll never make it!!!!
After 24 years in this business it just amazes me people are still trying to re-invent the wheel!
Salespersons mind and heart in the wrong place? Are we at Disneyland? They are supposed to be professional salespeople. Maybe dealers need to start looking at their management teams and cleaning house, and get back to the basics! meet greet qualify etc...or do we have a computer program for that too?
Give me 5 15 year veterans, a desk log, a 4 square and we'll kick the crap out of any store using half this nonsense out there today! -
-
Permalink Reply by Ray Spence on
-
Being a well seasoned sales professional and If I had my choice of which type of store I could work at, I would undoubtedly choose the 4square T-O system over a computer print out system. I have the expertise and the professionalism to know how to present it to my customer. My 4square will have accurate and compliant word tracks. By the time I get to the 4square presentation my customer will love me and trust me. If not it could be one of those times you and your customer dont mesh and they should of been turned, and please dont get me started on If and when you should turn a customer? Thats a whole other discussion. Anyway in the end, my customers will love me, I will sell more cars, I will make more gross, and I will make more money, which is why everyone of us is in the car business.
-
-
-
Amen,,,,,, I agree
Ray Spence said:Being a well seasoned sales professional and If I had my choice of which type of store I could work at, I would undoubtedly choose the 4square T-O system over a computer print out system. I have the expertise and the professionalism to know how to present it to my customer. My 4square will have accurate and compliant word tracks. By the time I get to the 4square presentation my customer will love me and trust me. If not it could be one of those times you and your customer dont mesh and they should of been turned, and please dont get me started on If and when you should turn a customer? Thats a whole other discussion. Anyway in the end, my customers will love me, I will sell more cars, I will make more gross, and I will make more money, which is why everyone of us is in the car business. -
-
-
Yeah - you're probably right Tim. But I would still take four people with the book of business (of repeat and referral clientele) and outperform the "5 15 year veterans, (with) a desk log, a 4 square".
Tim Pendergast said:Like I said earlier the 4 square is the same as a finance menu, take out some of the old verbage and you have full non confrontational disclosure to customer.
I trained my people to present it as an option and then we worked from there, we never said the banks require, we stated with 1/3rd down you can do a short term loan and keep your trade cycle at 2 to 3 years and not carry a ton of negative equity over.
Most customers would point to trade box and say I want more for trade,or they wanted less payment. Then the salespeople know the objections before they come back to desk...
And when did GROSS become such a bad word? No profit no jobs
As far as repeat and referrals, why don't we MAKE our salespeople stand in service line at least twice a day. Hell most stores i have been in lately you almost have to kick someone to talk to a customer if they come back in store with a problem after the sale. I have manager after manager say I can't fix that we only made 200 on that deal etc.. yet they dropped their pants on first pencil to make a deal and make customer happy. And then the follow up was a joke. If you don't ask for it, you'll never make it!!!!
After 24 years in this business it just amazes me people are still trying to re-invent the wheel!
Salespersons mind and heart in the wrong place? Are we at Disneyland? They are supposed to be professional salespeople. Maybe dealers need to start looking at their management teams and cleaning house, and get back to the basics! meet greet qualify etc...or do we have a computer program for that too?
Give me 5 15 year veterans, a desk log, a 4 square and we'll kick the crap out of any store using half this nonsense out there today! -
-
-
Do I smell a bet?
If so I'm in
Time and place....
Whats the stakes?
Tobias Sedillos said:Yeah - you're probably right Tim. But I would still take four people with the book of business (of repeat and referral clientele) and outperform the "5 15 year veterans, (with) a desk log, a 4 square".
Tim Pendergast said:Like I said earlier the 4 square is the same as a finance menu, take out some of the old verbage and you have full non confrontational disclosure to customer.
I trained my people to present it as an option and then we worked from there, we never said the banks require, we stated with 1/3rd down you can do a short term loan and keep your trade cycle at 2 to 3 years and not carry a ton of negative equity over.
Most customers would point to trade box and say I want more for trade,or they wanted less payment. Then the salespeople know the objections before they come back to desk...
And when did GROSS become such a bad word? No profit no jobs
As far as repeat and referrals, why don't we MAKE our salespeople stand in service line at least twice a day. Hell most stores i have been in lately you almost have to kick someone to talk to a customer if they come back in store with a problem after the sale. I have manager after manager say I can't fix that we only made 200 on that deal etc.. yet they dropped their pants on first pencil to make a deal and make customer happy. And then the follow up was a joke. If you don't ask for it, you'll never make it!!!!
After 24 years in this business it just amazes me people are still trying to re-invent the wheel!
Salespersons mind and heart in the wrong place? Are we at Disneyland? They are supposed to be professional salespeople. Maybe dealers need to start looking at their management teams and cleaning house, and get back to the basics! meet greet qualify etc...or do we have a computer program for that too?
Give me 5 15 year veterans, a desk log, a 4 square and we'll kick the crap out of any store using half this nonsense out there today! -
-
-
That's a great invitation Tim, but I am going to have to give you the win on this one - by default - for two reasons:
1. I don't bet.
2. Even if I did, I don't know of 3 other people with a book of business that are willing to train "veterans" for free - and from what I have seen; most won't ante up to learn something they already think they know.
The good news is, this won't have to affect how you do business... Plus, you won!
Tim Pendergast said:Do I smell a bet?
If so I'm in
Time and place....
Whats the stakes?
Tobias Sedillos said:Yeah - you're probably right Tim. But I would still take four people with the book of business (of repeat and referral clientele) and outperform the "5 15 year veterans, (with) a desk log, a 4 square".
Tim Pendergast said:Like I said earlier the 4 square is the same as a finance menu, take out some of the old verbage and you have full non confrontational disclosure to customer.
I trained my people to present it as an option and then we worked from there, we never said the banks require, we stated with 1/3rd down you can do a short term loan and keep your trade cycle at 2 to 3 years and not carry a ton of negative equity over.
Most customers would point to trade box and say I want more for trade,or they wanted less payment. Then the salespeople know the objections before they come back to desk...
And when did GROSS become such a bad word? No profit no jobs
As far as repeat and referrals, why don't we MAKE our salespeople stand in service line at least twice a day. Hell most stores i have been in lately you almost have to kick someone to talk to a customer if they come back in store with a problem after the sale. I have manager after manager say I can't fix that we only made 200 on that deal etc.. yet they dropped their pants on first pencil to make a deal and make customer happy. And then the follow up was a joke. If you don't ask for it, you'll never make it!!!!
After 24 years in this business it just amazes me people are still trying to re-invent the wheel!
Salespersons mind and heart in the wrong place? Are we at Disneyland? They are supposed to be professional salespeople. Maybe dealers need to start looking at their management teams and cleaning house, and get back to the basics! meet greet qualify etc...or do we have a computer program for that too?
Give me 5 15 year veterans, a desk log, a 4 square and we'll kick the crap out of any store using half this nonsense out there today! -
-
-
lol guess we will call it a draw.....good points on both sides though
Tobias Sedillos said:That's a great invitation Tim, but I am going to have to give you the win on this one - by default - for two reasons:
1. I don't bet.
2. Even if I did, I don't know of 3 other people with a book of business that are willing to train "veterans" for free - and from what I have seen; most won't ante up to learn something they already think they know.
The good news is, this won't have to affect how you do business... Plus, you won!
Tim Pendergast said:Do I smell a bet?
If so I'm in
Time and place....
Whats the stakes?
Tobias Sedillos said:Yeah - you're probably right Tim. But I would still take four people with the book of business (of repeat and referral clientele) and outperform the "5 15 year veterans, (with) a desk log, a 4 square".
Tim Pendergast said:Like I said earlier the 4 square is the same as a finance menu, take out some of the old verbage and you have full non confrontational disclosure to customer.
I trained my people to present it as an option and then we worked from there, we never said the banks require, we stated with 1/3rd down you can do a short term loan and keep your trade cycle at 2 to 3 years and not carry a ton of negative equity over.
Most customers would point to trade box and say I want more for trade,or they wanted less payment. Then the salespeople know the objections before they come back to desk...
And when did GROSS become such a bad word? No profit no jobs
As far as repeat and referrals, why don't we MAKE our salespeople stand in service line at least twice a day. Hell most stores i have been in lately you almost have to kick someone to talk to a customer if they come back in store with a problem after the sale. I have manager after manager say I can't fix that we only made 200 on that deal etc.. yet they dropped their pants on first pencil to make a deal and make customer happy. And then the follow up was a joke. If you don't ask for it, you'll never make it!!!!
After 24 years in this business it just amazes me people are still trying to re-invent the wheel!
Salespersons mind and heart in the wrong place? Are we at Disneyland? They are supposed to be professional salespeople. Maybe dealers need to start looking at their management teams and cleaning house, and get back to the basics! meet greet qualify etc...or do we have a computer program for that too?
Give me 5 15 year veterans, a desk log, a 4 square and we'll kick the crap out of any store using half this nonsense out there today! -
© 2024 Created by DealerELITE.
Powered by
